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Veteran Advisor
Gary K.
Posts: 1,862
Registered: ‎10-25-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

  • “The Department of Education establishes policy for, administers, and coordinates most Federal assistance to education. Its mission is to ensure equal access to education and to promote educational excellence throughout the Nation.”

    The doublespeak continues. The true purpose of the Department of Education is to ensure that as many people as possible fail to receive a real education. Instead, they are to receive a thin gruel of regurgitated facts presented to them over twelve years of confinement for one-third of their childhood, during which they also learn how to be dependent on the State and other authority figures, sacrificing their own independence, and how to be good consumers with few or no aspirations. This helps perpetuate the virtual caste system set up here in the U.S. which, though few actually notice it, is right in front of everyone.

    The Department of Education spent $57.3 billion dumbing down America’s children in 2005. It must be eliminated and the function of control of education returned to where it properly belongs under the Constitution: the States and the People.

******************************************************************
" Anyone who isn't confused here, doesn't really know what's going on."

I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure. People tell me I'm argumentative, but I beg to differ. All I know is it's bad luck to be superstitious.






Veteran Contributor
Boatworx
Posts: 107
Registered: ‎10-24-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

You'e going to hear from the Marxists again, I've got your back.

Tsa La Gi
Senior Advisor
firejohn
Posts: 2,080
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

Just for fun, here's a long, but interesting, piece on the history of Social Security. 

 

http://www.ssa.gov/history/briefhistory3.html

 

Eliminate the government, no.  Eliminate the waste, yes. 

Senior Contributor
Mathnerd
Posts: 489
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

"You'e going to hear from the Marxists again, I've got your back."

 

Comments like this are why political discussions are avoided on this forum.  Please, can someone from the right explain why, when someone disagrees with you, so many of you resort to name calling and labeling?  I love this country as much as you do, but we have different views of what's best policy to move us forward.  We can, and should, point out errors and fallacies in each others arguments, and be pasionate defenders of our views, but calling people Marxists because they have other ideas is no way to move a conversation forward.  Let's try to keep it civil or the moderator will put the kibosh (sp.?) on this enjoyable discussion.

Northridge, CA
1/3 of Americans can't add fractions; the other 3/4 can't subtract them.
Senior Contributor
Mathnerd
Posts: 489
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

 


firejohn wrote:

Just for fun, here's a long, but interesting, piece on the history of Social Security. 

 

http://www.ssa.gov/history/briefhistory3.html

 

Eliminate the government, no.  Eliminate the waste, yes. 


That piece was brilliant.  I learned more about our country in 15 minutes of reading than I have in all of the TV punditry I've listened to for years.  I was blown away by the fact that one of our greatest minds, Thomas Paine, called for an inheritance tax and an old age pension way back in 1795.  One of the founders of this nation.  Inheritance tax and federal old age pensions.  Amazing. Thanks , Firejohn, for this nonpartisan history of federal involvement in guaranteeing economic security for citizens of this great nation.

 

Northridge, CA
1/3 of Americans can't add fractions; the other 3/4 can't subtract them.
Senior Advisor
john880
Posts: 3,773
Registered: ‎01-01-2010
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

[ Edited ]

The million dollar Question is, with the elected politicians will there be meaningful change ? Has that well known "time"  come ?  I have  heard over & over for all of these years, what our continuing borrowing & with all of the reasons why, what dire circumstances we were passing on to our grandchildren

  Well it apparently did not take that long.

 It seems we elect people of good character to do the right thing, and they get into Washington. That person disappears. They become another Patty Hearst. If I remember right its called Coercive Persuasion, or just Mind Control. Once there they become so emerged in their party's rederick, and warned that is is paramount to go along with the party's leaders. In order for them to maintain majority control in order to continue along this path. Now,,,,If they refuse, they are put into some  out of the way counseling comity on deciding what to do on trivial matter.

  All of the entanglements of the establishment in Washington is mine boggling.

  On our spring camping trip, I was camped beside this modest but very nice Motor home. The owner was an aircraft engineer, who had sold every thing, and was moving out of California because of all of the mess. We and another camper and I, who joined us, sat there that whole evening sharing a soda across from each other on that picnic table. And I listening first hand of what he thought of the pit that financial, emigration, political, environmental, on & on mess his state was in., and why he and a lot of his long time friends were bailing out. As he voiced his opinion on all politicians down threw the years and what their thinking & most of all actions had done to a state whose size & finances was bigger than most third world countries.I goy a whole new perspective.


  I live in a city whose police dept members has payed into their own invested retirement. It has been a gold for many a years.of the city to take over that money to make the city look a lot more solvent. And then for them, the city, to do the paying out. The same thing happened to all of that money lying there in S. security by the politicians of the past to make the outlook of all their spending look a lot better. Now, with all of those many checks going out every month, what class of citizens are they touting to pay for the halt of this slide into oblivion. Have you heard of how much they, the elected, are going to cut out, and of how much of their retirement, and salaries,  10 %, 20 %,,,?












TODAY IS THE OLDEST YOU'VE EVER BEEN,
YET AT THE SAME TIME, THE YOUNGEST YOU'LL EVER BE,,, SO MAKE THE BEST OF IT WHILE YOU CAN, AND ENJOY THIS DAY WHILE IT LASTS.

Advisor
jandsjacobson99
Posts: 481
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

Unfortunately, I think that all too often the politics in Washington do kill the man and create the politician.  They are pulled in two different directions: doing what they believe to be right, and doing what is politically right.  The two things are rarely the same thing.  As was shown in the last election, doing the "right" thing can result in the inability to do anything in the future, but that is the kind of thinking that has resulted in where we are now.  No compromise, just politics.  Either the people must change, or the system must change for real, meaningful change to take place. 

Cheerio!
Sam
Senior Contributor
Mathnerd
Posts: 489
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

You've made an excellent point.  I often wonder if we completely replaced every member of Congress if it would change anything.    I imagine that in very short order we'd see the exact same things going on that we do now.  And neither party has a claim to any moral high ground, either. It's all too true that power corrupts.  It's true at every level of politics, all the way down to the local dog catcher.  The degree of corruption changes, that's all.  A sad statement about human nature, I guess.  Where's Jimmy Stewart when we need him?

Northridge, CA
1/3 of Americans can't add fractions; the other 3/4 can't subtract them.
Senior Contributor
Mathnerd
Posts: 489
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

 

 


Gary K. wrote:
  • “The Department of Education establishes policy for, administers, and coordinates most Federal assistance to education. Its mission is to ensure equal access to education and to promote educational excellence throughout the Nation.”

    The doublespeak continues. The true purpose of the Department of Education is to ensure that as many people as possible fail to receive a real education. Instead, they are to receive a thin gruel of regurgitated facts presented to them over twelve years of confinement for one-third of their childhood, during which they also learn how to be dependent on the State and other authority figures, sacrificing their own independence, and how to be good consumers with few or no aspirations. This helps perpetuate the virtual caste system set up here in the U.S. which, though few actually notice it, is right in front of everyone.

    The Department of Education spent $57.3 billion dumbing down America’s children in 2005. It must be eliminated and the function of control of education returned to where it properly belongs under the Constitution: the States and the People.


 

Ah, shucks, Gary, you make it too easy.  As usual, most of your post is unsubstantiated hyperbole. And, as usual, you are dead wrong again. 

 

From Wikipedia:

 

The Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) (Pub.L. 89-10, 79 Stat. 27, 20 U.S.C. ch.70) is a United States federal statute enacted April 11, 1965. The Act is an extensive statute which funds primary and secondary education, while explicitly forbidding the establishment of a national curriculum.[1] As mandated in the Act, the funds are authorized for professional development, instructional materials, resources to support educational programs, and parental involvement promotion.

 

Note that it says it EXPRESSLY Prohibits the establishment of a national curriculum.  Therefore the control of curriculum IS at the state level, just like you want it to be.  I guess you are right, though, spending federal money on improving teacher effectiveness, on materials for the classroom, and getting parents involved in their kids education is a socialist plot to create a welfare state, as you suggest. And, horror of horrors, part of the funding goes to paying for school lunches for those nasty little brats.  Can you imagine, now we have to make sure the're not hungry?  As if persistent hunger could possibly affect how a child learns. 

 

The Act was created under a Democratic president, and it wasn't until the 1980's under Reagan and then later under Dubya with NCLB that education in this country fell to the abysmal levels it's at today. Sure, we can do away with all of that.  Then your state and all the others will just raise its sales/income/property taxes to make up for the billions of dollars in missing funds.

 

 

 

 

 

Northridge, CA
1/3 of Americans can't add fractions; the other 3/4 can't subtract them.
Senior Contributor
Mathnerd
Posts: 489
Registered: ‎10-23-2009
0

Re: Heard it through the grapevine....

[ Edited ]

 


Gary K. wrote:

Here are a few that should be eliminated:

 

  • eliminate the Departments of Agriculture, Interior, Transportation, and Veterans Affairs;
  • close down major independent agencies such as NASA, the Tennessee Valley Authority, the Small Business Administration, the Corporation for National and Community Service, the Legal Services Corporation, and the Appalachian Regional Commission; and
  • terminate obscure independent agencies like the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, the Japan-United States Friendship Commission, the Marine Mammal Commission, the National Education Goals Panel, the State Justice Institute, and the U.S. Institute of Peace.

 


 

OK, let's buy into your arguments.  How much smaller will the government be after cutting all of that?

 

Dept of Agriculture         Budget $25.7 billion = .69% of the current federal budget

Department of Interior   Budget $12 billion =    .32%

Dept of Transportation    Budget $79 billion   =  2.1%

VA                                Budget $125 billion   = 3.4%

NASA                            Budget  $19 billion   =   .5%

TVA                              Budget   $12 billion  =   .3%

SBA                              Budget  $994 million =  .026%

Corp. for National/Community Service   $1.4 billion  = .03%

Legal Services Corp.       Budget  $350 million         = .009%

Appalachian Regional Commissionn    $76 million      =  .002%

Advisory Council on Historic Preservation      $6 million   = .0002%

Japan-US Friendship Commission                 $3 million  =  .0001%

US Institute of Peace                                   $49 million  .001%

 

I was unable to find budget figures online for the other 2 agencies you suggested, so lets just look at what I could find.  If you eliminated everything you suggest, the federal budget would be reduced by a whopping 7.3%.

 

Now, not even the craziest Tea Party candidates out there would ever suggest cutting out the VA and abandoning the men and women who served our nation.  And nobody has ever suggested cutting the Transportation department, which includes agencies like the FAA and The NOAA.  So those are off the table for even the most radical of conservative politicians. 

 

What does that leave us?  A whopping 1.87% reduction, or 69.5 billion dollars.

 

I bring this up for a reason.  The right wing rails about cutting spending, but the only places to cut real dollars are in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Defense budget.  I have yet to hear a single conservative politician make a single suggestion to touch any of those programs.  All they do is issue platitudes about cutting spending, but offer no concrete suggestions for real, significant cuts.  The one thing they scream about is the Department of Education, but again, with a budget of only $47 billion, it's only 1.2 % of the budget. 

 

More important, though, is to lokk at the mission statements of some of those agencies and commissions.  All of them make us a better nation and better people.  Improving relations with Japan is not big government.  Encouraging people to get involved in their communities is not big government.  Helping people start small businesses, the backbone of our economy, with startup capital is not big government.  I for one am proud that we as a people think preserving our offshore environment is a national concern, not just a coastal one. 

 

And I'm not a Marxist or a Socialist or a Communist because I don't agree with some people.  I'm an American just like you are. I just look at things differently from you.  That's also what makes us great, the ability to disagree and still move forward.

 

As you can tell from the number of times I've posted, I'm passionate about all of this.  But I'm done posting publicly on this thread.  I'd love to continue a discussion privately with anyone who wants to debate/concur with me, but let's do it offline through private messages from here on out.

Northridge, CA
1/3 of Americans can't add fractions; the other 3/4 can't subtract them.

 

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